On our last episode, we spoke with crime data analyst Jeff Asher about what it looks like murder might hit an all-time low this year. Now, we're talking with criminologist James Alan Fox about how we've yet to see a public mass shooting this year.

Fox, a Northeastern University professor who's studied mass killings for decades, said the tracker he runs for the Associated Press and USA Today hasn't found a single public mass shooting to date. He noted the decline actually dates back to last year, which saw an unusually small number of mass shootings as well. He argued the trend disproves the idea mass shootings constitute an "epidemic."

Fox said it's more reasonable to see mass shootings as rare events that have increased slowly over time, but not a lot more than population growth. He said the recent decline comes after a record high in 2023 and may be the result of the trend returning to its baseline. Still, he argued that the way many media outlets cover mass shootings, and the differing definitions they rely on, tend to mislead the public on their prevalence.

Special Guest: James Alan Fox.

This week, we have one of those advocates on the show. Mark Bryant, executive director of the Gun Violence Archive, was involved in the private meeting with CDC officials. He attacked Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck's estimate of 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year as misleading. And he said it was preventing new gun restrictions from making progress.

The CDC initially rebuffed the request from Bryant, GVPedia's Devin Hughes, and Newtown Action Alliance's Po Murray. However, they eventually changed course and deleted the defensive use estimates from their website without getting input from other points of view or making a public announcement of the edit.

Mark joins the show to explain and defend his role in the conversation, which he says he was added to late in the process. He argued his only concern in the conversation was with the accuracy of the data.

Things got a bit heated when I challenged him on a number of points and vice versa. However, it stayed civil overall, and I think the conversation was fruitful and exciting. Beyond the politics of the situation, we also discussed the controversy over how best to measure defensive gun uses as well as things like mass shootings.

Plus, Contributing Writer Jake Fogleman and I give updates on New Jersey's gun-carry restrictions and California's fee-shifting law.

Special Guest: Mark Bryant.